I’ve always been an open book with you all, and in this episode, I’m sharing with you my unfiltered thoughts about how I very recently came to realize that I am, in fact, neurodivergent.
Celebrating neurodiversity and supporting neurodivergent individuals have been central to my professional and personal life for so many years. And yet I was shocked by a fourth grader’s deceptively simple question to me: “Are you neurodivergent?” Turning the mirror inward that day started me on this journey of realizing my own neurodivergence.
What you’ll hear in this episode:
This is not a heavy info-based episode, but rather a reflection on the past several months of my own life. I’m hearing about so many parents who, after getting diagnoses or support for their neurodivergent kids, realize that they themselves are neurodivergent as well. And as these amazing parents come to understand themselves better, so have I. Here are some of the things I share in the episode:
The pivotal moment where this question began.
I was doing a read-aloud of my book A Kids Book About Neurodiversity to students, and I was getting very thoughtful questions in the Q&A portion of the event. And then a fourth grader asked me simply, “Are you neurodivergent?” (Don’t you love the honesty and straightforwardness of kids?) I stumbled through my answer because I had never considered it before. And afterwards, this question hung onto me as I wrestled with it, even sharing my thoughts and wonderings in real-time on my Instagram stories (the link will take you to the story highlight of the actual stories I posted during this time).
Reflections on how my anxiety and sensory avoidance showed up in my life.
As a kid, I distinctly remember being sensory-avoidant, highly sensitive/deeply feeling and easily overwhelmed. As an adult, I could be described as “type A,” I thrived with schedules and routines; I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, post-partum anxiety. If you told me about a person who could be described this way, I would have told you easily that that person is neurodivergent. And yet, I grappled with the idea when it came to my own neurotype.
Why I hesitated to claim a neurodivergent identity
The reason may not be quite what you think. In my work and in my personal life, I have come to see the beauty and wonder of neurodiversity. Without neurodiversity, without brains working and thinking in different ways, we would be doomed to never solve the world’s problems, for one. A big part of my work is advocacy for authentic inclusion, radical understanding, genuine acceptance of neurodivergent individuals.
The reason why I was hesitant to say I’m neurodivergent is because I felt like an imposter. I felt like I would be minimizing people who “have it harder” than I do. And I would be the first to tell someone with that thought that support needs vary widely among neurodivergent individuals, and someone who “has it easier” has just as much right to claim that identity as someone who doesn’t.
The eye-opening experience that helped me to finally and definitively answer this question.
During all of this wondering, it happened that our family took a trip across the country. It was during the planning, daily activity, the sensory overload, the anxious thoughts I couldn’t shake no matter how much I prepared and planned, seemed to crystallize for me, leading to the realization that I am not neurotypical. I am neurodivergent.
Speaker 1 (00:00): But I realized the real world is much harder for me to function in than it is in the own safety of my own home. And not only is it harder, but it really, really took a toll on my mental health and my nervous system that when I got back, I was so exhausted. I was irritable, I was moody, I got sick. It was hard for me to sleep. It was a whole thing. And I was like, yeah, you know what? I identify much more with someone who has to try harder in a world that’s built for neurotypical people. Speaker 2 (00:36): Welcome to the Sensory Wise Solutions podcast for parents where parents can get real actionable strategies to support kids with sensory processing disorder. I’m Laura OT and mom To Liliana, a sensory sensitive kid who inherited my anxiety and my love for all things Disney. Consider me your new OT mom. Bestie. I know my stuff, but I also know what it’s really like in the trenches of parenting a child with sensory processing disorder. Okay, mom, enough about me. Let’s start the podcast. Speaker 1 (01:13): Hello, hello. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Apologies for my voice. I am getting over a cold, but I have a warm and cozy drink in my hand, so we should be fine. So this episode is half unscripted, half. Well, the intro part is a little scripted. Why I like bringing that to your attention is because when I title episodes unscripted, I think it prompts people to know that this is more of a brain dump. My thoughts are less coherent. There’s a lot more ums, and usually it means there’s a lot more emotion or vulnerability behind it. But I did script the introduction a little bit just because I wanted to make sure that I was giving you the proper context. So recently on Instagram, I was reflecting in real time as I was reflecting what was happening. You could see the wheels behind my head as I was spewing my thoughts on stories and posting them and then reacting to your dms and all of that. So in real time, a few weeks maybe was, I think it was a month ago now at this point, a little over a month, it was reflecting on whether or not I consider myself or label myself. (02:34)So this all started when a fourth grader at my daughter’s school asked me if I’m neurodivergent after I finished doing a read aloud of my book, a kid’s book about neurodiversity to their school. And I do not know why, but I stumbled over my words when I answered her, and I don’t even think I gave her a clear answer, which is not great because I just got finished reading a book, a kid’s book about neurodiversity and defining the two. And here I was stumbling over my own words, couldn’t even give her a straight answer. So that stuck with me as an overthinker, as an anxious person. I have been thinking about that interaction for so long. And so then, yeah, I shared it to my stories. I think the original question I asked was, Hey, if you have clinical anxiety, does that count as neurodivergent? (03:33)And so I think I put up a poll and the results were mixed. And so I want to explain where I’m at with that at this point and how I identify in terms of my neurotype. And so again, this is coming from at that time when that kid asked me that question, I already knew that I had a very concrete clinical diagnosis, unquestionable diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder and have associated sensory sensitivities as well. So I wasn’t questioning whether or not I’m an anxious person and I have sensory sensitivities. I was like, does that count? Does that count as neurodivergent? And so the diagnosis wasn’t new, but outwardly just introducing myself as someone who was neurodivergent was very new. And for some reason at that time, it felt very conflicting to say, yes, I am. (04:40)But it might not be the reason that you’re thinking. So I will be the first to tell you that if you are neurodivergent, you should be loud and proud about it. Our differences in this world are what made us unique and make us who we are. And it would be very boring if the entire world was neurotypical. I say this all day long to parents, to kids, to families, to teachers. And I know this and I believe this wholeheartedly, but the reason why I was hesitant to label myself as neurodivergent is because I felt like an imposter. I felt like I would be minimizing people who quote, have it harder than I do. (05:25)And that thought in itself is what stopped me in my tracks because I know better than that. I know that neurodiversity is a spectrum, and I know that some people have higher support needs and less support needs in other areas. And I know that masking neurodivergent traits is something that many of us, especially millennials, have grown up learning how to do subconsciously, and the way that we behave in the world is not always reflective of the neurotype that we have. So just because I feel like I’ve been making it all this time, why now? Why am I now? I must not be, must be an imposter. That’s where I was getting stuck. I felt like I was not worthy of saying, yeah, I am. (06:13)So when I brought this to Instagram’s attention, it sparked a really great conversation, a little bit of a debate, but nothing that was contentious. I truly, truly welcomed the conversation and the discussions that I had in the dms. Actually, part of that conversation is going to unfold in another episode. It’s going to be published maybe if not the next episode, probably the next after that. And it is with Dr. Cassidy Freis, Andy Putt from Mrs. Speech ep and Mr. Chaz where I kind of hosted a round table and I wanted to hear other people’s perspectives, other professions perspectives on using the label of neurodivergent. But today, I’m just doing a deeper dive on my own mindset. So in that episode, I could really highlight their voices and allow them to share their perspective. So this is kind of a two part. This episode is just my mindset and really doing a brain dump, like I said, of all the questions I’ve been asking myself and the answers that I’ve found along the way. So again, this is not a heavy info based episode, but if you’re curious about my thought process and you want to learn a little more about my brain, my neurotype, maybe it will help you learn more about yours, then come on in, get cozy. We’re getting into the unscripted part. So let’s just pretend like you’re my therapist and I’m telling you all about my childhood. (07:35)So backstory, if you were to ask me to describe myself as a child, I would use the words shy, timid, slow to warm up, introvert, scaredy, cat, highly sensitive or deeply feeling whichever term you’re familiar with, but really, really sensitive, both in a sensory perspective and with feelings. I took everything personal, every criticism, every time someone picked to play with someone else, every time I lost a game, every time I found out my best friend played with her neighbor instead of me. Everything I cried pretty easily. But I would say compared to Liliana, I didn’t cry a lot like meltdown. I didn’t have a lot of tantrums or big emotional outbursts against my parents, if that makes sense. I don’t want to say against my parents, not like she’s doing it to us, but hopefully I’m painting the picture. It was more of sadness, feeling left out, and I would cry to my parents about feeling sad or losing a game and things like that. So I cried a lot in that sense, but not necessarily the meltdowns. And I think that’s one of the things that in my head was like, I must not be neurodivergent because I don’t remember having meltdowns as a child. (09:15)I was very overwhelmed easily by a lot of things in the environment. I vividly remember going to those Benny Hana. That’s just a name of a franchise. If anyone’s not familiar with Benihana, it’s those Japanese style restaurants where you sit in a group and then in the middle is that really that hibachi grill where the person, the chef, cooks in front of you and they usually have really big flames of fire. I remember every time going to those, my parents loved going to one specifically in Palm Springs, our family vacation. I remember hiding under the table every time the chef would come over to cook. I didn’t want him to joke with me. I didn’t want him to make eye contact with me. I didn’t want, because how chefs, they like to play it up and joke around, especially if there’s little kids. I didn’t like that attention. And then anytime there was fire, I would have to bury myself and my mom or hide under the table. (10:21)And I actually shared a video of this on Instagram I, one did. I was not fond of any kind of characters that were dressed up. So at Chuck E Cheese specifically, but also at Disneyland, whenever it was Mickey Mouse or Min Mouse, when they were in their costumes, I always had to look away. I used to fake sleep. We would pretend like I wanted to see them, and then when we’d be in line, I’d pretend to fall asleep and not wake up. So I didn’t have to interact with the characters. See, again, I wasn’t having a really big meltdown or protesting or crying. I just found very clever ways to avoid it. So I would say I was more of a sensory avoider rather than sensory sensitive, which can be just a very subtle difference. (11:11)And so I shared a video on Instagram of my sixth birthday party at Chuck E. Cheese and Chuck E. Cheese is singing that very obnoxious happy birthday song. And I’m trying to clap along with the song, but I’m covering my ears. So my elbows are bent. If you can picture that. My elbows are bent to try to cover my ears, and then my right hand is clapping on my left elbow because my left hand is covering my ear and then my right shoulder is up to my right ear to try to cover that. And so I was trying to clap. So I was clapping with my right hand to my left elbow. (11:51)I saw that video and I was like, maybe I was neurodivergent and I didn’t know all along. I think it’s so funny that I happened to stumble across that in this season of my life where I’m reflecting on all things about my childhood and neurodiversity and, and I also had a lot of cousins who would just tease me a lot and you could snap your fingers and I would cry. So it was a very sensitive kid. So that’s what I remember about my childhood. I also remember, I’ve talked about this in other episodes where my parents really wanted to shield me from a lot of different emotions. So my parents, I would say were permissive parents in the most loving way. They were not neglectful, they were doing the best that they could with the information that they had, which meant that I didn’t get a lot of practice having to regulate through some of those emotions. My mom and dad always made me feel better with little white lies and little toys and candy and letting me do what I wanted. (12:59)So that’s my childhood. That’s what I remember from me being a very young child. And then in high school years and maybe college years, the way that I would describe myself was your typical type A overachiever, very schedule oriented. I love to organize things. I was always, always the person in the group who organized all the social events. I got everyone together to go to the movies. This was in high school. I would gather a whole group of us and schedule the time and tell everyone what time to meet at. I was the one who scheduled our prom limo and where we’re going to take pictures and coordinated all of the corsages. I was that person. I think a little bit about it is I like the control. Obviously now in hindsight I can see that, but at that time, it really did fulfill me and everyone just knew, oh, Laura’s going to take care of it. Laura’s good at that. So that’s kind of just been what I’ve held onto as a personality type. I have always been the person who thinks I fail at every test and then I end up getting an A. I just naturally doubt myself and my abilities. And I would always study, study, study for tests. Even though I knew the material so well, I just felt anxious, like heart racing. I would just get a pit in my stomach if I feel like I didn’t study even a little bit. (14:35)So I did well in school. I was an overachiever. Like I said, I think it started to shift. I started to find a little bit of a balance actually in college when I met my now husband, when I met Mark, because he is quite the literal of me in so many ways. They say opposites attract. So that must’ve been it. But I like to say that I helped him be a little bit more on top of his schoolwork and I would force steady dates, and he helped me find a little bit more balance, a little bit more enjoyment when I was still in college. And then motherhood, which was when I experienced a loss of control in every single aspect of my day. And I realized how much of that combined with lack of sleep, combined with the hormonal shift and the brain wiring that I already had, that predisposed me is what made me have a really hard postpartum experience. (15:46)And then all of that layered that’s going on with me and then already then having a newborn who was a little harder than what I was anticipating. So it was kind of this perfect storm where in the first four months, I would say six months, I was really like, what is happening? There was a very big shift in my identity. There was a very big shift in my day-to-day. And everything I felt like I had control of was no longer within my control, from my body, from my sleep habits, from what I was eating, from even trying to control this newborn and trying to program her like a little robot. And nothing I was doing, even though I studied so hard for this test, this test of becoming a mom, I studied everything and it wasn’t going as I had planned. All of that was really, really hard for me. So I remember actually the first time I had even considered the word anxiety for me because remember up until then, I was just always been like, oh, just this overachiever type a goody two shoes is what people would call me, rule follower, all of that, just your typical. (17:03)So the first time I had ever even considered like, oh, maybe I do have anxiety, was when I finally reached out for support from a mental health therapist. Again, I was, I was only an OT for maybe a year at that time. So I was more in the space of working and collaborating with mental health specialists. So I was around it a lot. So it felt more familiar to me to reach out to this to a mental health therapist. And so I was sitting in that waiting room. This was Liliana was already six months at this time, but I had been struggling for a while, yet nothing had come across in my typical MD appointments with the questions that they asked were checking in on me. But that check-in list after your six weeks, it’s so surface level and it’s so extreme that it makes it hard for you to actually check off some of the boxes, right? (17:59)They’re like, do you worry excessively? And do you feel, I forget the questions, but I was like, no, it missed the mark basically. So when I went to finally make this appointment with a mental health therapist in the waiting room, there was a pamphlet on postpartum anxiety, and I actually just came across this picture a couple days ago. I snapped a picture of it when I was in the waiting room, and then I went home and I took a marker and checked off on my phone. You know how you can edit or mark up pictures on your phone? I checked things off and I just found that picture the other day and I want to read it to you. Okay, so here’s the intro. On the pamphlet, it says, what are the signs of postpartum depression and anxiety? Many women report feeling as if their emotions are on a rollercoaster. (18:51)Moods and symptoms can change frequently for no apparent reason. Some days are good and some are bad. Many women put off getting treatment because they think that the days they feel good are an indication that the situation is not as bad. In fact, this is just a normal progression of the illness. That is particularly one of the things that took me so long to seek support was because I would have good days and I would be like, oh, if I’m not like this 24 7, there must not be anything going on. So the signs that I checked off specifically were feeling on an emotional rollercoaster, not being able to sleep when baby sleeps, feeling disconnected from your baby partner or family, inability to deal with stress as effectively as usual, feeling guilty for not feeling like a new mother should. And then on the other side, it talks about common indicators that you might be at risk. (19:48)The first thing says type A personality. Then it says a personal or familial history of depression, anxiety, or mood disorders. My mom has anxiety. She might not know that or admit it yet, but she does high levels of stress during pregnancy. I had some medical stuff going on when I was pregnant, so there was a lot of stress there. And a baby who is difficult to soothe, which was Liliana at that time, and low tolerance for disorganization or lack of control, yes, that was me. So I saw that pamphlet and was like, wow, I connect with this. I really think I have postpartum anxiety. I did. So I talked to that practitioner and I did. I only worked with her maybe a couple times. We were not the best fit. And then I think I got the flu. I got really sick that winter because that was in December, and I just never picked up my visits with her. So I never really resolved that. And then for the next couple of years of Liliana’s life, we struggled a lot as from the story I’ve already shared. If you want to go back and hear the beginning part of our story, particularly with Liliana, go back to episodes one through four. (21:05)Yeah. And so the next time I worked with a therapist was when Liliana was about two, and I was seeking support for her for liliana’s anxiety, which she was diagnosed with as, what is it, adjustment disorder with anxiety, I think is what it was called. And we worked with the play therapist at that time. And fast forward to now, I still work with that play therapist who was working with Liliana, but now she’s my personal therapist, and turns out I have clinical anxiety. And so that all makes sense. And in hindsight, I can see how parts of my life fit into this, but I can also see how I have made it work so much in my favor that it was not very apparent to myself or even others because I was so high achieving because I was social and hung out with a lot of friends and did all of that. And it never really stopped me from doing some things. But I was masking a lot. And like I said, I had to coordinate my life in such a way to make things, to make myself feel comfortable. Then as a mom, as a parent, as things got more out of my control, as I realized my daughter is neurodivergent and needed a different approach, and that brought on its own emotional roller coaster. (22:33)As the pandemic happened and more of these scenarios became less in my control and a lot more fear-based for me, all of these things started adding up and my symptoms of anxiety grew. I got more intrusive thoughts. I started to get more physiological signs of anxiety. When I would think about something my heart would raise, I would start sweating. I would sometimes feel like a tightness in my throat, but again, nothing that felt unmanageable. There would be hard seasons I would feel like. And I would say, I think it’s time to go on medication. And I would just put off putting that appointment to go to a psychiatrist to get the medication. And then by the time I thought about it again, I’m like, oh, you know what? I am fine now. It’s great. So I don’t need it. So I kept having that, and I am still not on medication, but I’m now realizing how much I actually do live with anxiety and how much it really does color every second of my day. And it’s so quick for us as moms particularly, but parents in general to just dismiss it as with other labels that society gives us. Mom rage, mom brain, the default parent, like I said, helicopter, parent, all of those things except, hey, maybe you actually have clinical anxiety and this is the way that your brain is wired and you’re struggling really hard in this role as a parent without a lot of support. (24:19)And I finally, the thing that got me to identify as neurodivergent, so I’m making that very clear here. Now. I’ve kind of danced around it this whole episode. I definitely am. But the experience that made me say, yep, I am neurodivergent is when I went on vacation. So a few weeks ago we went to Atlanta for my husband’s work trip. Liliana and I tagged along with him, but he was working most of the time. We were there for a Monday through Friday, and so all day, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, it was just me and Liliana and Atlanta is a big city, but I was feeling like I wanted to take her out and take her places. So that meant we had to navigate getting Ubers walking around the metropolitan area. We were in the midtown area of Atlanta. I had to go to new places, make sure all of her regulation was on point, all of that. (25:27)Navigating a new city technically on my own, meaning without support from another adult, but then also having to take care of my daughter. The level of stress that put on my brain and my nervous system that week took me a couple of weeks to recover. Even though at that time I was like, I’m doing it. We’re thriving. But I remember the constant intrusive thoughts the whole time while we were out. It was around, is someone going to grab this purse off of me? What if Liliana fell right now and got run over by a car? All of these ridiculous, out of nowhere intrusive thoughts were just bombarding me, and the sensory experience was off the charts for me. I was so overwhelmed when we went to the aquarium. I needed headphones more than Liliana did. I remember feeling like I couldn’t catch my breath when we were in the aquarium, and there was a lot of people around and a lot of visuals. I truly was in sensory overload, and the aquarium was the second to last day of our trip. So I had that whole trip had already been kind of on overdrive with my nervous system. So everything that week was much harder for me. And I realized, yes, I’m on vacation. But I realized how noisy and scary the quote real world is because I am a work from home parent. I work in my office in my little cozy corner at home. (27:04)I have the same routine every single day. I see the same people. I don’t eat the same foods every day, but we all have a certain routine. My day-to-day life was very well controlled, and I have been making it and managing it as best as I can, and I go through bouts of feeling anxious. Usually when Liliana is going through something, I kind of take on that anxiety as well. But I realized the real world is much harder for me to function in than it is in the own safety of my own home. And not only is it harder, but it really, really took a toll on my mental health and my nervous system that when I got back, I was so exhausted. I was irritable, I was moody, I got sick. It was hard for me to sleep. It was a whole thing. And I was like, yeah, you know what? (27:55)I identify much more with someone who has to try harder in a world that’s built for neurotypical people. I feel much closer to that than I do a neurotypical person. And I have had many conversations with other neurodivergent individuals. I’ve had conversations with other moms who are neurotypical because I had to separate. I was like, this is just a typical mom thing, a default parent thing where we’re in charge of so many things that our executive functioning is just shot and exhausted. But no, I spoke to a lot of moms who have the healthy or the normal level of worry and anticipation and anxiety and sensory overload in everyday motherhood. But I was able to find some who were like, no, this doesn’t really consume a lot of my energy. I’m able to bounce back pretty quick. So there is a difference between a mom who has clinical anxiety and sensory sensitivities, and a mom who is a neurotypical mom that just sometimes worries about her kids or a mom who does get overwhelmed when their kids are shouting and touching them. (29:08)You’re not just a robot going through it, but when it comes down to it, you have an easier time functioning in the world. That’s the way that it is, and don’t depend on a lot of accommodations or adjustments to your day and your lifestyle, and I think that’s really where it landed. So I am neurodivergent and I have the exact same neurotype as my daughter, which is so funny to me because I’ve never hesitated in calling her neurodivergent. If you described a child like my daughter who had anxiety and sensory sensitivity and rigidity in her day-to-day routines, absolutely, that is a neurodivergent child. Give them a kiss on their brain because they have a beautifully wired brain. So why do I have the identical and for some reason took so long? But I want to leave you with a story. I want to guess pause for a second. (30:02)I want to say that having the same neurotype as my daughter has been a blessing and a curse. There have been some times when there have been some advantages and being a parent to her, because I understand how her brain works. Of course, the con is that sometimes I might preemptively project my own fears and anxiety onto her, which is definitely something I’m working on and I’m trying to find a balance between. But I recently used this to my advantage, having the same neurotype as her, and I want to leave you with that story. So we are in a year round school, which means we have a lot of longer breaks within the school year, but we have a shorter summer break. So we just had a three week break from school from the end of September to mid-October. It was our fall break. So it was a lot of days out of our routine, and she was ready to go back to school. (30:55)She was very excited, and on her first day back to school, they had a substitute teacher. So again, already a shift in the routine, going back to school, anticipation of being back at school, the sensory stuff from it. And then on top of that, the unexpected change of teacher, a new teacher. So I already knew that that day might be kind of rocky for her when I picked her up. Dismissal looked a little different. It’s usually very structured. They usually line up at one spot. They dismiss them in a certain way, but of course with a substitute, it looked different and it looked a little chaotic. That’s putting it nicely. So it was a little chaotic a little later than normal a few minutes later. So I started looking for her because she wasn’t where she normally was, and I found her coming out of her classroom, and she was sobbing and carrying her backpack and sobbing, and I was like, what’s wrong? (31:49)What happened? And she said, I was late. I didn’t get out on time. And I said, I’m right here. You’re not late. I’m right here. And then she said, no, I couldn’t get out of the door fast enough. She said my name, and it took me so long I couldn’t put all of my papers and my backpack. That’s when it clicked for me. She was feeling rushed to get out the door and this pressure of time, and I immediately knew exactly how she felt. So I shifted what I was saying instead of I remembered, instead of trying to negotiate out of it and saying, it’s fine, don’t worry, we’re here. Let’s go. Not a big deal. Let’s move on. I immediately shifted into validation and saying, oh my gosh, I know exactly how you feel. So I got down on her level and I was like, oh, I know that. (32:40)I said, I hate when that happens when you are trying to get somewhere or put something away or do something really fast and you can’t get everything right in the right spot, and you’re rushing to put things away, and then it’s really hard to get it exactly how you like it, and then you heartbeat’s fast and then you get really sweaty. I described it very specifically and very convincingly because I knew exactly how she felt, and she looked at me shocked. She was like, yes, that’s all she could say. I was like, yes. And I just gave her the biggest hug. I was like, I know exactly how you feel, and that was it. She was still sobbing, but I could feel that release of her when I hugged her, and she truly felt seen by me, and she knew. I knew exactly how she felt because I took those words out of her mouth for her. (33:31)So having the same neurotype as her allows me to validate her experience, and I’m trying to break the cycle, not necessarily because my parents were bad, they were not bad at all, but break the cycle in the sense that I am going to teach her more about how her brain works and how her emotions work, and not really always shield them from her, but allow her to feel normal and feeling that at least feel normal in this house, and showing her that she’s not alone with those kinds of feelings and that I can be here with her. So it’s a full circle thing, parenting, right? So yeah, thank you for listening to my story. Thank you for letting me share it with you. Sorry if I got a little tangential, but let me know if this resonates with you. I love hearing from everyone that says that this sounds like your story or if you learned a new way of supporting your partner, send me a DMM on Instagram if you liked it and share this with others if you think that they’ll like it as well. Don’t forget to follow up either next week or the week after for the round table episode. That will be a good kind of sequel to this conversation. I’ll write, I’ll talk to you soon. Speaker 2 (34:52): If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider rating it and leaving a review, which helps other parents find me as well. Want to learn more from me. I share tons more over on Instagram at the OT Butterfly. See you next time.