From whole body listening to everyday regulation with Elizabeth Sautter

Elizabeth (00:00): Just that. So basically what was we realized was that the Larry Whole Body listening poster and the books were talking and teaching how to listen in a formative way and a performative way. So it was on how to show somebody else that you were paying attention. Laura (00:28): Welcome to the Sensory Wise Solutions podcast for parents where parents can get real actionable strategies to support kids with sensory processing disorder. I’m Laura OT and Mom to Liliana, a sensory sensitive kid who inherited my anxiety and my love for all things Disney. Consider me your new OT mom. Bestie. I know my stuff, but I also know what it’s really like in the trenches of parenting a child with sensory processing disorder. Speaker 3 (00:58): Okay, mom, enough about me. Let’s start the podcast. Laura (01:05): Hi everyone. This week I am so excited to share the great conversation I had with Elizabeth Solder an S L P or speech language pathologist who specializes in social communication, emotional regulation, and executive functioning for over 25 years. She strives to provide neurodiverse affirming therapy, training resources and an online course for parents with a passion to make it simple and sprinkled into everyday life as what she says and add in, not an add on. I love that to everyday routines and activity. She is also an author for the Make Social and Emotional Learning Stick Practical Activities to Manage Emotional, navigate social Situations, and reduce anxiety, which you can find@elizabethsauder.com. And she also is a collaborator and trainer with the Zones of Regulation team. You can find her hanging out in California with her husband, two sons, dog, and a cat. And I’m just so excited to bring this conversation to you. (02:06)If you want to go back and really hear the episode where I dive deeper into why the original whole body listening concept isn’t the most appropriate for divergent learners, then you can go back and listen to episode 45. So just head to the ot butterfly.com/ 45, but please just take this episode to take note from Elizabeth on how it can look to know better and then do better, even if it means taking down an entire curriculum that you find that no longer aligns with your values. And one more thing, at the end of the episode, you’ll hear us talk about the idea of creating an email template to help you start the conversation with your child’s teacher or school admin. And we actually did work together and put that together for you. So if you want a copy of a free email template, head to the ot butterfly.com/w B l, like whole body listening template, or just scroll down below the episode for the show notes and you’ll find a direct link there. Hello, Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast. I’m so happy to have you on. Elizabeth (03:14): Thanks, Laura. I’m really happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Laura (03:17): I’m so glad we connected. And it happened to be right around a reel that I shared that was something that I think on so many therapists and parents and teach some teachers’ minds as well. And I’m so glad that you, I think it was you who reached out to me and we connected over the idea of having to unlearn so many things as professionals and parents. And I’m just excited to share your story and the transformation that you’ve made happen with the whole body listening idea, the concept, the curriculum of it. And I want you to share that story with us today. But before we get into it, can you give us all a quick introduction to who you are and why you do what you do? Elizabeth (04:02): Absolutely. Oh, I wear a lot of different hats. I’m a speech and language pathologist by trade. I call myself more of a social cognitive specialist or social-emotional coach because I’ve always been interested in autism and behavior and sensory and regulation, all the things. I had a center in Oakland, California. I’m from California native for many years with occupational therapists and educational therapists, and we did a lot of speech therapy and group therapy and it was tons of fun lots of innovative therapists. And now I have a group of speech pathologists that I support out in the schools, and I have a couple of private clients myself, and I’ve written a book and I have an online course and some children’s books. I also dive in and I’m a collaborative zones of regulation trainer, and I’ve written some of the ancillary products with Leah Kipper, who’s the creator of the Zones of Regulation. (05:05)So I wear a lot of different hats, and one of them is being the co-author of the Whole Body listening Larry Books and posters, which has been a journey in itself. And on a personal note, I am a mom of two neurodivergent boys, both with a D h d. One has dysgraphia, one has anxiety, all it’s all the different things. I grew up with a sister who’s two years older than me who was multiply disabled, and she’s recently passed in June unexpectedly. But she’s a lot of the reason why this is so familiar and why we had OT equipment in our basement growing up always and sitting in tons of waiting rooms. So this is just something that is not just a profession for me, but a life endeavor. And I actually have always known that I am dyslexic, but as I recently have been diagnosed by an educational therapist, I’m like, let’s just get this on paper and see what all the discrepancies are with my brain as well. And so she’s like, yeah, you’re very dyslexic. And I’m like, yep, I’ve known that Laura (06:16): Well. So you just found that out now, but you sort of knew that your whole life growing up in school and all of that? Oh yeah. Managed school Elizabeth (06:24): Was not easy for me. Well, yeah, school is not easy for me, but as we know, having a disability that doesn’t dictate your intellect or your ability to navigate things. So I was that kid that sitting in class and you’re have to read out loud. And so I would always figure out which paragraph I had to read before, so I wasn’t listening to anything Laura (06:48): You would count. I was like, it’s going to be my turn for this Elizabeth (06:50): One. And I was practicing decoding to read out loud, so it was just not easy. And then you know, get tested and they’re like, oh, you’re in gate math. I’m like, wait, what? No, no, that’s not me. And I just sort of faked it all the way through and used my other strengths to compensate. And thank goodness for Grammarly now and my amazing editor. I am a dyslexic author. It’s crazy. Laura (07:16): I love that. And I also love that you still decided to go get the diagnosis just to make it official. Yeah, I hear so many adults now just by learning so much about their kids’ brains or their students’ brains that’s like, maybe I should figure something out about myself. Even if you’re very successful in your personal professional life. It’s just interesting to learn more about your own brain. And I feel like it just adds so much more to how I walk through every day knowing more about how my brain works, and it gives me so much more to self-compassion and validation. So that’s really cool. Okay, so let’s jump into it. So I want to give some context to people before you introduce what whole body listening Larry is and where it came from. So as an occupational therapist, this poster is in, I feel like every OT clinic, a lot of classrooms. (08:07)And it was a very universal way to teach kids to sit and listen to the teacher or whoever speaking in front of them. And this was to how you were supposed to show that you were listening. And I never, ever second guessed. It was just a part of every sort of curriculum that I would teach for a lot of the kids that would come to OT because a lot of them were having a hard time in the classroom. And it only became clear to me that it needed to either be reframed or not used because there wasn’t an alternative yet. But there is one now when it probably in the past year or two, as I’ve really, really immersed myself in listening to the neurodivergent community and raising my own neurodivergent daughter who she can sit still for a long time, but knowing that she has other areas of need that are different than her peers, it just makes me question so many of the things that I have I have known. (09:10)So I created a reel and a blog post that was why we shouldn’t use this. And I was starting to come up with, well, instead of this, we should provide more sensory regulation opportunities for the child. Lean into it if they are wiggling, instead of saying, stop wiggling, let’s give them away to wiggle while still listening to the lesson. So I was giving a bunch of tips and then must have not even been even a full month, maybe just a few weeks later you came out with the new version of it and I was like, this is exactly what we needed. And it’s from the creators of the original one. So I think that it is a beautiful transformation. I was just so excited to share your story. So that’s context. I will put the original reel just so everybody can see what I was talking about in the show notes, but I’m also going to give all of Elizabeth’s resources and links that we talk about today in there as well, so you can see how it’s come full circle. (10:03)And just let this be inspiring for any therapist out there who maybe feels cringey or awkward in having to admit that you have said or thought certain things that were not very neurodiverse affirming. And we can learn from Elizabeth and everyone who has started to really, really listen to the divergent community and make changes, not just say, I hear you, but actually make changes. And I think that that is so amazing. So Elizabeth, please share the story from start to finish, where whole body listening Larry came from and what was in the community, the talk that was going on in the community at that time, and how we’ve transformed. Elizabeth (10:45): Let’s start from the beginning, which is actually, it’s funny, I just was cleaning out some cupboards, and you can’t see this for those of you listening, but it’s a book by Nita Everly called Can You Listen With Your Eyes? And it’s like this big board book and it’s this teddy bear and it’s breaks down all the different ways to listen. And we use that a lot in groups in our center when I was working with OTs and doing social groups and whatnot. And then we learned about the concept of whole body listening, which was developed by Suzanne Trusdale. And then she wrote an article in 1989 or 1990 for the Asha Magazine or the Asha Leader, I can’t remember, but she wrote an article and we actually didn’t even know about that at the time because it was widely spread. But basically she’s a speech pathologist and she went into a classroom in of first graders and she was just asking them what’s involved with listening? (11:42)And some kid says, looking, sitting still mouth quiet. So all these, they mapped it all out and she’s like, oh. And the teacher said, this is really helpful. Thanks for breaking down something that’s so abstract and get us away from saying things. Pay attention to me and listen to me. What does that even mean to these kids? Because it’s, they’re not really asking them to listen or the process of listening, which we’ve written a lot of articles on now, the teachers were saying, this is what I would like for you to do in a group setting in a performative way. So it’s like that’s what they were doing is breaking down that abstract concept, being clear, which we were trained to do that and be clear as kind and break down all, don’t use big words like respect and listen and pay attention. So this concept became very popular. (12:36)And one of our therapists, Kristen Wilson, who’s the co-author of the original books and poster with me she was in group and she put this Larry character on a stick with her students, and they just started talking about listening with Larry on a stick and all the things involved with whole body listening, looking at the speaker hands, quiet heart, caring brain on all the different, we talk about all the different components of being active versus being inactive, things that turn on for listening versus turn off. And the kids loved it. And then we said, well, let’s make a book and a poster to help other people. And so that’s what we did. We partnered with Social Thinking who was a publisher, and they picked it up and it just really got out there. And that’s where based on Suzanne Trusdale, who I’m connected with and adore her and her work, her work, originally, we made it into a book and a poster, social thinking pop published it, and they’re all over the place. (13:34)So that just really got out there. And then we started hearing from the autistic community and saying that this isn’t right. And we’re like, wait, what? I still couldn’t wrap my head around how it wasn’t kind and clear to break this down. But then I started understanding, oh yeah, I get it. My kids struggle with this too. That’s not how I really listen either. And so we changed it a little bit and we wrote an article on, it’s a tool, not a rule, and I was talking to Suzanne Tuesday a lot about it, and Michelle’s social thinking, Garcia winner Michelle Garcia winner from social thinking and trying to modify things and change it. And then as I started listening and learning more Kristen and I just really realized that this needs to go. And just at one point I’m like, I can’t be a part of this. (14:27)I cannot do that. So we talked to Michelle’s social thinking and I said, I’d like we’d to take it down and take it off the market. And so we did. And then from there we developed some focus groups to really listen more deeply and we wanted to highlight autistic voices. And so we interviewed a group of people, but then people one-on-one who really wanted to talk to us more and asked, what do you want to be done? How can we support this movement and what needs to change? And they said, well, you have to do something. You can’t just take down the posters because we were done. Nobody wants to hear from Larry anymore. Move on. Bye Larry by Larry. We didn’t have the bandwidth really. We both have jobs and kids and all the things, but with integrity, we just wanted to listen and do what they asked, which was to make a new poster. (15:30)And I’m like, okay, well did Larry go, nobody wants to hear from Larry anymore. And Larry’s known as a rule police and they said, no, actually it’s probably good to use Larry because then it’ll get the attention. It would get the attention from the teachers and the educators or parents therapists who Larry or just think they still understand or they didn’t understand why it’s problematic, just that. So basically what was we realized was that the Larry whole body listening poster and the books were talking and teaching how to listen in a conform way and a performative way. So it was on how to show somebody else that you were paying attention and looking at them, which in the neurotypical world or whatever is, I mean it doesn’t really like you and I aren’t even staring at each other’s eyes or anything, it’s just we do things a lot differently. (16:40)But in the whole body listening curriculum or the way that we were teaching it was to look show quiet hands, quiet body, all the different things that we’ve been taught all along. And that is actually not how most people listen. And it’s actually very exhausting. Like you were mentioning for your daughter, she can sit like that, but to do that, it probably takes a huge cognitive load for her. And then she might not even be really listening and processing the information. She’s just focused so much on how to perform based on what Larry was teaching in all these different compliance and conform conform performance-based ways. So what we realized is we wanted to change it to be more focused on regulation, what works for you. You still can talk about whole body listening and what works for each body part. It looks better for me to look away, or like I said, I’m big on looking out the window or moving my hands around. (17:43)For me, actually, I listen much better when I’m standing or pacing, moving, whether, you know, have a fidget, whatever it might be, and all about this as an ot. And so we wanted to make it based on becoming more aware of what works for your body and focusing on regulation and then also on advocacy for that, being able to express in a way that empowers children and people in general for what works for them, for listening. So we’ve created this new poster that’s available for free as a download, and it has a whole explanation of what happened and why, and then some different icons and ways that you can listen in different ways. And then we also have recently we have a new publisher and we’re working on a book to then to be able to replace the old book and now does the mission with integrity have to be here with <inaudible>, with big followings and communities and whatnot to share who can then have the ripple effect and continue to share so that we can get to the classrooms and the people who are still using the old posters and books and understand why it can be detrimental for our learners. Laura (19:09): I love the new poster and I love the little phrasing that you have at the bottom of the poster that says, all brains and bodies listen and learn differently. It is important to know what works for you. That is just the best description of what it means to be neurodiverse as a population neurodiversity, celebrating that everybody’s brain and body is different from each other’s, not just the one child is different from the entire class, just celebrating differences. In an ideal world, and I just keep saying one day I would love if each mainstream classroom had a day or at least half of a day or a couple hours of doing some sort of what we call an OT sensory detectives, where you explore a bunch of different tools, ways to sit, ways to move that doesn’t even require a bunch of fidgets in those toys, but just different ways and taking notes on how it makes your body feel so everybody can know what works for them before, because I think I can see some pushback from either teachers or people not fully aware of how sensory needs can impact learning. I could see a lot of them being either confused or push back a little on this idea that, well, how am I supposed to get the attention or focus from this group of kids if some’s wiggling over here and someone over there is standing and it just seems too hard for some teachers or one person to manage in front of a class. Have you, you seen it successfully yet or heard from teachers successfully been able to implement this in a mainstream classroom with multiple students of different, various needs? Elizabeth (20:55): Yeah, I know that this can be extremely overwhelming and I don’t work in a classroom of, I push it to the classroom and I teach the zones and mindfulness and whole body listening and all the things, but I’m not there five days a week to Laura (21:13): One with the 30, 25, 30 kids, 30 Elizabeth (21:16): Plus kids. So I get it, it’s a lot. And to have they’re, there’s no way that I can map out everybody’s sensory and cognitive and all the needs in terms of being able to regulate when it comes to listening. But I think it would be so impactful and just critical and changing if we took the first week of school or whatever and just focused on laying the foundation for regulation. And I mean that would just change all the classrooms. And so probably, I haven’t done this a lot in the mainstream classroom because it’s new, it’s coming out and it’s just started to trickle out. We’re getting a lot of positive feedback from teachers saying, thank you, this is what I needed to map it out. And also too, I want to, it’s more than just the whole body listening and thinking about the sensory needs within a listening situation. (22:18)What I think is being done more, and we can make this a bridge to talking about social emotional learning in general and the social emotional learning curriculum out there, the curricula out there that focuses on regulation as the foundation and not just the social. So I mean, I’m going to put a little plug in there for the zones of regulation and also Kelly Muller’s work of interoception, which we use a lot in conjunction. So it’s not just talking about your emotions and categorizing them into different zones and different levels, but it’s also developing that toolbox and that toolbox is what you need to be focusing on then for regulation. And everybody’s toolbox is different. So for those who are using the zones of regulation or using other social emotional curriculum that focuses on regulation and building a toolbox for each child, that’s where this starts. (23:18)And so that’s where you can say then, okay, well let’s think about your toolbox. We do do tools of the week or tools to try and this is all in the lessons from the zones and there’s a whole section on interoception and a pathway for building your tools and when to use them and whatnot. And then you can bring in the whole body listening. So for instance, what are some great tools that we learned that would be helpful when we’re in a group situation and listening in to the read aloud or whatever it might be? Yeah, so we remember you said that you really liked doing the wiggle cushion or that stand you the standing desk or things like that. That might be a really good time to practice using it during a listening. So it’s more than just having a poster and some kids might need more one-on-one and going through each body part and figuring out what works, but it really is creating a culture of figuring out what works for the child, the teacher, the classroom, and the community in all the different listening and learning situations that come throughout the day. Laura (24:24): Yeah, I think it’s so important for everybody to understand that you don’t have to be neurodivergent or have a specific diagnosis to benefit from movement while you’re listening to a story or to have a different way of showing that you care about your friend or that you really remember something that they did over the weekend, even though you’re not making eye contact or asking that phrase question of the friend file and all of the things that we do teach from a top-down approach, but really from a regulation perspective and how we relate to another person. I really love polyvagal theory for thinking about all of that attachment with relationships. All of this is all fitting very nicely in how we should think of teaching kids, parenting, kids being around our own kids and all of that. It’s so nice to have it all fit together and come in this world. (25:13)And I just wish I had this way earlier in my when I was working in the clinic. Yeah, I want to talk about something that comes up a lot for teachers because I want to spread the awareness out there that there is this new listening poster, but I also want to touch on some of things that I hear from teachers where they hesitate, where they’re like, but what if this, mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the most common one I get a lot that I hear from teachers is, well, if I let that child do that, then all of them are going to want to do that. And I’m curious to hear what your response is to those teachers who are like, I can’t give everybody a fidget, or if I let that kid walk around, then they’re all going to, how do you coach them through that or get them over that fear? Elizabeth (26:00): And I think that it’s a mindset shift for sure, and I think that oftentimes it can get a little bit more chaotic before it gets more calm because it’s figuring it out as a classroom community. And we’re also not saying that because this one child does for me, say I was in a classroom or my son who always gravitated towards the standing desk, you’re not going to put the standing desk in front of the other kids. It’s like we still have to think about the fact that there’s other people around us. We’re sharing space. It’s fine to talk about perspective taking and what works for other people in way so it’s functioning with your own individual needs, sensory regulation, whatever it might be, but also functioning in a group. And so providing those social guidelines and information as a classroom community is perfectly fine as well as thinking about your own needs. (27:04)So that’s why I mentioned too, is talking about the social emotional learning as not just one off with each child and then they’re all doing their own individual strategies, but it’s also looking at the classroom as a whole. And so that has to be taught in a way that feels as we’re working together in a community, not just one person. And so yes, you can advocate for looking away or standing or fidgeting or whatever it might be, and it’s still important to think about personal space or what works for the people around you. It’s not about just everybody can do whatever they want. Laura (27:45): And that’s where I mentioned to the teachers that why it would be so cool, you and I were talking about if they spent a week or a few days really getting to understand what works for their body and how, whenever I provide some sort of a physical tool, whether it’s a TheraBand or a fidget or something, or if it’s something, just let them lay prone on the floor while they’re reading instead of requiring them to sit at the desk. If it’s one of those things, it’s understand if this is helping your body focus and learn, or if it is not helping and it does not help everybody. So a pair of glasses is not going to help the next person see just, it helps me see so very, you Elizabeth (28:22): Can make it worse. Laura (28:23): Exactly. Elizabeth (28:24): Description. Then it’s just like, yeah, I Laura (28:26): Think it’s where without any context. And then you just give the yoga ball, the exercise ball, the wiggle cushion, all this to one kid in the classroom. Of course people are going to say, well, why does he get that? How come he gets this? So why can’t we just teach the whole class more about how everybody and brain learns, speaks, plays, prefers things differently? And adding to that, which I feel like is a whole other thing, and I don’t want to go too tangential, but it’s so hard to not mention it, is those kinds of behavioral management tracking things that call out those behaviors that kids are doing for regulation. And then it gets so confusing for kids with the language that they’re using and then labeling other kids as well. His body was I hear kids all the time get confused with the red, yellow, green clothes pin tracker thing and the zones, and I’m like, no, no, no. So zones and the clip chart are different, but, and actually, oh, well he was always on yellow or red today. That’s so bad. And he was a bad kid for, because he wouldn’t listen and he wasn’t sitting and he kept touching this. And I’m like, oh, needs so much regulation. Elizabeth (29:41): Yeah, we can go on and on about the behavioral charts. I it’s not when you’re a whole nother blame and shame of, I know that are being clipped up to the red call teacher, whatever it might be. And it is unfortunate that sometimes we’re really working hard with the zones to make sure that everybody knows that it’s not about green is good and red is not good. And so there’s a whole integrity and piece of that. We’re working on that with blogs and whatnot. But even if you’re just using the clip chart with the colors or any kind of clip chart, it’s, it’s not helping the kids who need to practice regulation and it’s just calling them out with blame or shame. So what we talk about more is helping kids really understand what and teach the regulation strategies and then them just identifying how they’re feeling in different situations. (30:43)That’s that interceptive awareness and that then labeling their emotions. And then it’s the zone for being able to figure out, well, yeah, it’s fine for me to be in the yellow zone when I’m out at recess, no problem. But if I come back in transition, it might be helpful for me to use my homan ball or breathing tool or whatever might be. And to your point, I am holding a hoberman ball for those of you who are listening right now, these are great tools for some kids or teachers to use to show diaphragmatic breathing in front of the classroom. But for other kids, this is way too colorful and super Laura (31:18): Stimulating Elizabeth (31:19): And they just want to throw it back and forth and it becomes a toy. But that’s something that we teach early on. Is this a tool for you to then use for your brain and body to achieve the goals or demand or task, whatever it might be in that situation? Or does it become a tool, a distraction, overwhelming for the kids sitting next to you? Then we need to think about something else. And so that comes back to your point of a teacher saying, what do I do? And it’s just like, well, you have to, it’s a lot of trial and error and that’s what would be great for us to be doing this in the beginning of school where we can lay that foundation understanding with your brain and your sensory system, all the different things, and then figuring out which each child needs and if it fits into the classroom, how they can figure out what they need within a group situation. And then you work on it as a class. Laura (32:13): I feel like because whole body listening, Larry was everywhere and we’re trying to get away from that. That seems to be the closest in that we have for spreading awareness of different learning styles. How, if any, so don’t curious what the plan is or how you can get, I’m guessing you can’t really contact every school that has whole body list. There’s no mailing list to be like, Hey, when there’s a recall of food, yes. And they’re like, oh, you purchased this. You need to return it. It’s bad or don’t eat it. There’s no way to get in contact with people who have that. But it’s so widespread. It’s like a classroom household name. Everybody knows what whole body listening is and everybody pictures him. How can we get this new message spread outside of this podcast if people are listening and you’re a parent or a teacher or a therapist, what do you think is the best way going through principals like school districts? How do you envision this being more mainstream now? How can we get that message out there? Elizabeth (33:17): Well, I also want to mention I to have a huge amount of credit to Kristen Wilson, who’s the co-author of all this with the original whole Body listening and me. And then we also brought in McAllister Wen, who is the divergent teacher. And because we were getting consultation from her and she was one of the ones that says, no, the whole body listening is still good, and it’s just that we have to do it in a different way. And so just Laura (33:42): Define it differently. Elizabeth (33:43): Huge part of this. Yeah, I want to make sure to give credit where credit is due. And so the plan right now is to continue with getting the word out there. We’ve been writing blogs. We have a new website. I’m doing it through my website since I also blog. And that has quite a bit of people following from my books and the work that I’ve done over the years, which is elizabeth solder.com. But there’s the free, and I have the free poster there. And then also on Everyday Regulation, we’ve been writing blogs and we have an Instagram and Facebook and whatnot and we’re just putting the word out there. So we’re just to, I’ve done a couple of podcasts and so is McAllister and Kristen is working on things behind the scenes as well. And we’re working on trying to get other curriculum. People are asking, how do we teach this? (34:32)And so if any ideas or they want to partner with us in doing this, it’s not, we’re just mission-based. And we will send emails once the book is ready and we’ll do more of a campaign when the book is ready as well, to get them to use the, it’ll explain the different body parts and what this could look like in more of a teaching way that would be helpful for teachers. That goes along with the poster. But we’re open, there’s not really a plan. I mean, we’re just three therapists teachers, educators that are really passionate about this and doing our best to sprinkle this out into social media and through a website and that kind of platform with not very much bandwidth or support. So if there’s anybody else like you or that has ideas of what we could do, we’re happy to do it. And wanting to put ourselves out there to talk about knowing better and doing better and supporting the neurodiversity movement in making these critical changes. Laura (35:42): I really see this being a district wide professional development req requirement almost for the teachers, the even school psychologists, everybody who has to take a certain PD on stuff. This should be at the district level, I feel like. I agree. I was just thinking as you were talking, I dunno if you’ve already done this or if something we could do together. I think it’d be very helpful for parents specifically. Cause that’s mostly my audience. If we could write a template email that they can use to attach the poster to their child’s teacher or principal if they have a relationship with them and say, Hey, this is a new thing, what should we do that together? I think that would be a very good, let’s do it Elizabeth (36:27): Thing. Let’s do it. I have an email list too. I’ve been writing a lot of blogs and on all of ’em have the free download. Also too, if there’s educators listening or parents if as you’re listening, because my audience is mostly parents too, even though on the phones it’s mostly educators. But on my elizabeths.com, I’m really, the family system is really important to me because I’m a mom, like I mentioned of two neurodivergent kids and my sister and whatnot. But if there’s anybody listening who wants to tell their administrators, and we have, so the digital download is an eight by 11 printable, and you can use that and it’s fillable, you know, can fill it out with your learners. But there’s also a poster that you can purchase that, because we have to have it go to a printer and it costs money and all that stuff but we want to be able to get bulk orders out there. So I just ordered a hundred posters for all of my therapists that are going out to them in their schools and hope, and I’m going to take videos of them taking it down and we can, I just, oh, that’s love for this to be a ripple effect. And I think a lot of our listeners are probably already on the neurodiverse <inaudible> path. And so it’s like, how can they just continue to tell, we’re Laura (37:38): Pitching to the choir, we’re preaching to the choir, basically. And they’re all like, yes, yes, yes. But this is a really simple way for you to reach out to your child’s teacher with something in hand. Because the hardest thing is when parents say, I don’t like how you’re doing this with my child, or This is wrong, but no solution except can you just let him do X, Y, Z? But here, take this poster down. Here’s a new one. It’s free. What do you have to lose about it and learn about all? And then maybe linking some anchored articles or things for them to, and just we can get the message out there, one teacher, one parent at a time, and Elizabeth (38:15): Hopefully, and I wanted to mention too, when we download the free P D F, it comes with a whole body listening time for change article on why and what. Oh, beautiful. And then it also, it has this attached to it. You can’t see it. It’s a whole article and it also has some icons and how to use the whole body listening poster. Laura (38:40): So it’s already giving some good starting points. And then it’s a stay tuned because a book will be coming soon. And so Elizabeth (38:50): Replace hold one. Laura (38:51): So anyone listening right now, I’m going to put all these links in the show notes, which means wherever you’re listening to this, if you scroll down underneath the description of the episode, links will be there. But if you want to just hear, I think the best website for this is, is it your website or the Everyday Regulation? Elizabeth (39:07): Both. They can come to me elizabeth sa.com and they’ll get the free poster there. And there’s, and I have some articles that are more geared towards parents around this. The everyday regulation.com is McAllister, Kristen and I, and that’s also the free poster there with articles. There’s just a few there on listening by. The three of my, myself and McAllister have been writing articles there. And then there’s Instagram elizabeth solder.com. I’ve been doing a lot over there. And then I sometimes do collaboratives with Everyday Regulation. There’s some over there as well on so that you can share and save those as well for people who might be interested in learning more. So there’s a lot of captions on what we’re talking about and why, and then that links to the blog that you can also share with educators. But I think it would be good if you and I collaborate and if anybody’s listening and they want to contact myself or Laura on what it is that you would want to see, and if you have ideas about how we can continue to spread the word Laura (40:05): Specifically, if there’s anyone listening and you are a school admin or a principal and you have ideas of how to get this to the top of the system of the school and the district where it starts from the top down, please reach out to either me or Elizabeth because this is a very, very important mission as everybody knows. Yeah. So one more time. So elizabeth sauder.com, which is E L I Z A B E T H S as in Sam, A U T T E r.com. The link will be below, but for those of you listening who just want to go in right now and then everyday regulation.com, both of those are your two go-to points. And I think after we end this call, I will definitely be brainstorming some template emails. And so follow up with me on Instagram and Elizabeth’s Instagram to see the rollout of that so that you can use the template email to introduce it and then send them to the link to download the free, the new and updated poster. I think that’s a really good place to start. Elizabeth (41:08): I love that idea. That sounds really helpful and empowering, and I love collaborating with you. So Laura (41:15): Yay. Thank you so much for being here, Elizabeth. Thank you for doing what you’re doing for offering for really just being so humble to admit that we all can do better after we know better. And there’s no shame in having to completely take down what has been just part of everyday life in the classrooms and being able to share that story proudly here and making this resource available for free that is huge for teachers. And so I hope that this becomes as big, if not bigger than the original, Larry, and we can see all of these new regulation posters all over our kids’ classrooms. Thank you so much for being here today. Elizabeth (41:54): Thank you. I just so appreciate you and the helping the unlearning is so much, but so it’s such a good model for our kids too, and I think that’s another reason why good to use Larry because like, oh, Larry learned something different and he is teaching us something different. So it’s just so great. And your platform is so listened to this podcast so many times and I’m like, yes, and yes and yes. So I’m really glad to be here talking to you and saying yes together and sharing this information with your community. Thanks, Laura. Laura (42:20): Of course. It was so good to have you. Thank you for being here, and I’ll talk to you soon. If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider rating it and leaving a review, which helps other parents find me as well. Want to learn more from me. I share tons more over on Instagram at the OT Butterfly. See you next time.